Part 26: (Self Love, Compassion and the Self): Dialogues on a Philosophy for the Individual

(Pix (c) Larry Catá Backer 2015)

With this post Flora Sapio and I (and friends from time to time) continue an experiment in collaborative dialogue. The object is to approach the issue of philosophical inquiry from another, and perhaps more fundamentally ancient, manner. We begin, with this post, to develop a philosophy for the individual that itself is grounded on the negation of the isolated self as a basis for thought, and for elaboration. This conversation, like many of its kind, will develop naturally, in fits and starts. Your participation is encouraged. For ease of reading Flora Sapio is identified as (FS), and Larry Catá Backer as (LCB).

The friends continue their discussion, in which Betita Horn Pepulim (BHP) responds to Flora Sapio.

Contents: HERE. 

(BHP) Dears Larry, Flora and Paul.

Flora, i think we have a problem of understanding here. When i spoke in "invoice", i used this word just to give an example of what are data (for my area of know ) in a commercial organization. I used a commercial organization as example because i thought it would be a simpler example. Easier to understand. Invoices and receipts, are document they can mean absolutely nothing for an individual who does not work in a financial sector, or do not have a business. For an individual who does not work in a financial sector, these type of document are just a data. Are something the world could live without.” Disposable papers”.

But for someone who works in the financial sector of an organization, or for the organization itself, both invoices and receipts, can tell a story about a moment of the business organization, to which they belong, is in this moment that the content of such documents becomes information, and depending on the impact, that this information have on the individual who is working on it, this information can become knowledge applicable in various contexts, including personal growth, for someone who works with finance. Besides, of course, of the invoices and receipts, be part of the life of one commercial organization or not.

As to meaning, for the french linguist Emile Benveniste the language is a system of socialized signs, its elements only acquire meaning, when inserted in contexts of interrelation, why each sign by itself, not always,has significant meaning. With regard to signs, particularly, i believe we should not underestimate the power of a code, of one text element, be it a image or a word. I believe the existence of codes, is required, it is interesting for the individual and makes difference to his life.

In relation to what was said about poets and artists can be not used by the triangle of meaning, i do not believe in this premise.

The poets and the artists try all the time contain in some kind of symbol, or of code what they feel and their worldview. Their symbols and their codes, are the works they produce, that like everything else,were interpreted, are interpreted, and will be interpreted and / or perceived, according to the reality of those who them see, read or hear.

No machine will try to capture them. They use codes, because they are human beings, and from what we know, since the world began , they want and need to communicate. Or rather, in this case, communicate your feelings, and your emotions.

The language or code, whether verbal, visual, musical or body, is which allows a given individual, communicate with other members of the same community. I think choose which codes, it will use, makes part of the exercise of freedom which is birthright of every individual.

Jean Baudrillard (2002, p. 149) talks about freedom as a concept and a practice, for him the choices and customization capabilities are actually a mechanism of integration between people.

To what extent which the human being is free? An interesting approach on this issueis the approach of the englishman John Stuart Mill, for him, individual freedom, makes a distinction between two things: freedom of the individual about himself, and the limit of their freedom in society.

For the human be free, Mill establishes three principles:

a) the conscience of the individual , must be free;
b) the individual must be free to be different from the others;
c) there should be freedom of association in society.

According to this thinker, the individual must be totally free at your consciousness, that is, it must have full sovereignty over himself, and no instance (state, school, religion) should interfere in consciousness of the citizen.

Caros Larry, Flora e Paul.

Cara Flora, eu acho que nós temos um problema de compreensão aqui. Talvez relacionado a forma de eu me expressar.

Quando falei em “fatura”, usei esta palavra somente para dar um exemplo do que são dados (para a minha área de conhecimento) em uma organização comercial. Usei uma organização comercial como exemplo por que eu achei que seria um exemplo mais simples. Mais fácil de entender. Faturas e recibos, são documentos que podem significar absolutamente nada para uma pessoa que não trabalha em um setor financeiro, ou não tem um negócio. Para um indivíduo que não trabalha em um setor financeiro, este tipo de documento são apenas dados. São algo que o mundo poderia viver sem. “Papéis descartáveis”. Mas para alguém que trabalha no setor financeiro de uma organização, ou para a própria organização, tanto as faturas e as notas fiscais podem contar uma história sobre um momento da organização comercial a que pertencem, é neste momento que o conteúdo destes documentos se transforma em informação, e, dependendo do impacto, que esta informação tem sobre o indivíduo que está trabalhando nisso, esta informação pode tornar-se conhecimento aplicável em vários contextos, incluindo o crescimento pessoal, para alguém que trabalha com finanças. Além, é claro, das faturas e recibos, fazerem parte da vida de uma organização comercial ou não.

Quanto a significado, para o linguista francês, Émile Benveniste a linguagem é um sistema de signos socializado, os seus elementos só adquirem significado quando inseridos em contextos de inter-relação, por que cada signo por si só não possui significado relevante.

No que tange a signos, particularmente, eu acredito que nós não devemos menosprezar o poder de um código, de um elemento textual, seja este uma imagem ou uma palavra. Eu acredito que a existência de códigos é necessária, é interessante para o indivíduo e faz diferença na vida dele.

Em relação ao que foi dito sobre os poetas e os artistas não poderem ser usados pelo triângulo de significado, eu não acredito nessa premissa. Os poetas e os artistas tentam o tempo todo conter em algum tipo de símbolo, ou de código o que sentem e sua visão de mundo.

Seus símbolos e seus códigos, são as obras que produzem, que como tudo mais, foram interpretadas, são interpretadas, e serão interpretadas e / ou percebidas, de acordo com a realidade de quem as vê, lê ou ouve.

Nenhuma máquina vai tentar capturá-los. Eles usam códigos, porque são seres humanos e pelo que sabemos, desde o início do mundo, eles querem e precisam se comunicar. Ou melhor, neste caso, comunicar seus sentimentos, suas emoções. A linguagem ou código, seja verbal, visual, musical ou do corpo, é o que permite que um determinado indivíduo, comunicar com outros membros da mesma comunidade. Eu acho que escolher quais os códigos, ele vai usar, faz parte do exercício da liberdade, que é direito natural de todo indivíduo.

Jean Baudrillard (2002, p. 149) fala sobre a liberdade como conceito e práxis, para ele as escolhas e as possibilidades de customização são, na verdade, um mecanismo de integração entre as pessoas.

Em que medida é que o ser humano é livre? Uma abordagem interessante sobre esta questão é a abordagem do inglês John Stuart Mill, para ele, a liberdade individual, faz uma distinção entre duas coisas: liberdade do indivíduo sobre si mesmo, e ao limite de sua liberdade na sociedade. John Stuart Mill, a liberdade individual, faz uma distinção entre duas coisas: liberdade do indivíduo sobre si mesmo, e ao limite de sua liberdade na sociedade.

Para o ser humano ser livre, Mill estabelece três princípios:

a) a consciência do indivíduo, deve ser livre;
b) o indivíduo deve ser livre para ser diferente dos outros;
c) deve haver liberdade de associação na sociedade.

De acordo com este pensador, o indivíduo deve ser totalmente livre em sua consciência, ou seja, ele deve ter plena soberania sobre si mesmo, e nenhuma instância (estado, escola, religião) deve interferir na consciência do cidadão.

(LCB) An interesting and quite powerful perspective Betita. Yet also one that may be subject to some interrogation. Yet, the power of data within a semiotic framework is powerful indeed. And it merits some discussion of the invoicing function of communication. Might we, indeed, consider every act of communication the delivery of an invoice that is paid or ignored bu its recipient. Between thing and sign there is a bill to be paid--that is the bill of recognition, which can only be delivered through a communicative act, and which acquires its currency only when the medium fo exchange is recognized by the persons or things or signs to which or within which the transaction is witness or directed. Communication can be understood as a series of invoices that rely of a network of common understanding. As thus the system of socialized signs, but one detached from any formal anchor is something immutable. That makes the movement from invoice to Mill somewhat ironic. In a sense, Mill suggests for me that individual liberty is a function of its inverse. For Mill to make sense, its opposite must be embraced. Free conscience, difference and liberty of association requires, indeed demands, the coercive and superior power of the community for it to exist. What mill suggests, at its limit, is a small space for the marginal within a society powerful within its self reflexivity but tolerant of those forces that may move it. Implicit within Mill is the notion that the marginal, the free, the detached serves a social function--one of great importance to the interpretive community in its societal constitution--deviation serves a societal function. It is only within the social sphere, the sphere within which communal meaning is possible, the the individual and her freedom is also possible and only be reference to it. Social utility is produced by this freedom of the individual, but only within the construct of the social reality and not outside of it. That leaves unanswered the question of individual freedom because it remains rooted within the interpretive community and of service to it ( or it is suppressed as dangerous) and unmoored from its external semiotic traidic relations, unmoored from itself and therefor monstrous. The project of liberation then might well have to look to the issue of the taming of the beat (perhaps the cousin but not the twin of Leviathan). 

 (Yvonne Love) “Something is a work of art when it has filled its role as therapy for the artist.” Louise Bourgeois.

(BHP) Betita Horn Pepulim You're right Larry Catá Backer. I should have gone deeper into the issue of freedom. I already have an idea. I will better structure my thoughts and i will expose to you. By way of explanation, one of the reasons that led me to cite Mill, was because he was also an economist. rsrs As i used the example of a commercial organization, i remember him. I like various approaches his. But not all. Hugs!

(BHP) Betita Horn Pepulim Even as a therapy, every human manifestation occurs through some kind of code. Including the art. The spontaneity in the design and creation of a work of art, does not nullify the fact that is being created a code. Once conveys something for someone, is kind a of code.

(FS) Flora Sapio Imperatrix Maris You write 'sao documentos que podem significar absolutamente nada'. Precisely! To some people, invoices mean nothing. To others, invoices tell the story of a business. It depends on how people look at them. There are different codes. For instance, to some people numbers are just numbers. To other people, a number can be the symbol for a thing, and also a symbol for a word. it depends on the context.  This is nicely illustreated by the variaitons in the Italian game of Tombola (see HERE);

As with most other Italian holiday traditions, the game of Tombola varies according to the region in which it is played. This is especially true with regard to what each number represents in a given region. It is not uncommon to discover that a particular number has a completely different, and often times comical, meaning in another town. In Tivoli, for example, the number 9 signifies shoes, while in Livorno the number 9 is identified as a certain something you don’t want to end up on the bottom of your shoe. In Napoli, the number 19 means the laugh, but in Tivoli 19 is portrayed as the drunk. Similarities do sometimes arise, as is the case with the number 20 in both Tivoli and Napoli. Both regions identify 20 as the symbol for party. At your next holiday party, why not incorporate a game of Tombola as part of the night’s festivities. You may just be the one yelling “Tombola” and finding yourself a bit richer for it!

Flora Sapio Imperatrix Maris

(BHP) Betita Horn Pepulim Perfect Flora Sapio Imperatrix Maris! That's exactly what i mean. For a moment i thought i was not making myself clear.